In the immediate aftermath of the Brexit referendum that led to the UK's departure from the EU, many observers assumed that the Netherlands would be the next state most likely to seek a political rupture with its European allies and partners. Long seen by UK politicians and pundits as a state with a similar outlook to their own, the Netherlands also faced a longstanding challenge to its established post-1945 political order from competing populist movements. Yet as the wrangle between the UK and EU over their future relationship quickly became a messy process that is still not entirely resolved, the Netherlands remained deeply embedded in the political order of the EU system

To help us explore how Brexit, the rise of populist movements and other economic and political pressures facing Europe have affected the Netherlands, we have been joined this week by Caroline de Gruyter. As a journalist and scholar based in Brussels, Caroline de Gruyter is the European Affairs correspondent for NRC Handelsblad, one of the leading Dutch newspapers, and has written for many other major media outlets including Foreign Policy and De Standaard. Most recently, she has written a fascinating study of the impact of the Habsburg legacy on the European Union called 'Beter Wordt Het Niet: Een Reis Door de Europese Unie en het Habsburgse Rijk'. With such a broad perspective, Caroline de Gruyter provides nuanced insights into how the relationship between the Netherlands and European integration has evolved over the last decades.

The background music is Through the City by Crowander, and the production for this podcast was by Daniel Mansfield.

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