Idea Machines
Distributing Innovation with The VitaDAO Core Team [Idea Machines #42]
A conversation with the VitaDAO core team. VitaDAO i...
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Jan 2 2022 1h 13m
Chapter 1 59 sec
Chapter 2 59 sec
various action proposals for me to doubt to take. This voting based system contrasts with more traditional models of the company. That is a creation of law or contract raises capital by selling equity or acquiring debt, and is run by an executive team who are responsible to a board of directorsChapter 3 59 sec
that's kind of how I've done itChapter 4 59 sec
also steward the deal flow group within the longevity working group. And I think we should all now say as a hive mind, Paul Paul has said at the same time, oh, sorry. I'm going to say bye to dadChapter 5 59 sec
also, so the thing that's confusing to me is that I always assumed that the Vith came from the word vitality. Right. And so that's, that's where the idea of calling it a fight Vita doubt, right? Because like, I don't say vitality, I say fighting. In German, it's actually retaliatory. Yeah. So it's just like the stupid Anglo centrism that is from the Latin, I would say from the word lifeChapter 6 59 sec
like very, very mechanical. How does the dowel work? Could you like walk us through maybe like, sort of a a core loop of, of like what, what you doChapter 7 59 sec
grant funding, essentiallyChapter 8 59 sec
NFP framework, which basically consists on one side of a legal contract, typically in the form of a sponsored research search agreement between a funder and a party that would be receiving the funding, the laboratory, and on the other side of federated data storage layerChapter 9 59 sec
form of some people who have worked at biotech VCs, for example, people with entrepreneurial experience and through this community, you basically try to form, let's say a broad range of expertise that can then coach the research or work with them and really help the academic move the IP and the research project towards the stage where, where it can be commercializedChapter 10 59 sec
I think Vincent, yes, to and on the kind of very simple technical layer, kind of very initially we started off just having this idea and putting it out there and then like having like a kind of Genesis auction where everyone could contribute fundsChapter 11 59 sec
and yeah, which we did of course was like kind of like a very easy mechanism that got it started, but then the storm of course can also be useful for different purposes and can also incentiveChapter 12 59 sec
And then on the other hand, on the translational side, when something, youChapter 13 59 sec
w I think in my, in my mind, the thing that's really interesting about Vieta Dow, as opposed to other dads is, is the sort of like interface with the, with the world of atoms that that's like a pretty, pretty unique and exciting thingChapter 14 59 sec
well beyond just working with the research, right?Chapter 15 59 sec
can just receive beyond currencyChapter 16 59 sec
so that, so, so like negotiating with tech transfer offices like they, I assume need to sign a sort of an analog legal agreement with a analog legal entity. Is that correct? And is that, is that like, is molecule that, that legal entity or like, how does, how does that work?Chapter 17 59 sec
example, with with B to themChapter 18 59 sec
interoperable with the real well today as possibleChapter 19 59 sec
people doing the negotiation and sort of holding the IP and forcing the IP. Because, because there's like at that sort of Dow analog interface there's is my impression is that there's no like enforceable legal contractChapter 20 59 sec
the right to license exclusively the, the resulting intellectual property, or in some cases, even the full rights of the agreement molecule now engages inChapter 21 59 sec
could be taken. But this is, yeah. Again, when you look at Peyton enforceability and Indian electoral property landscape, most of these things like, you know, you find out what works through, through litigationChapter 22 59 sec
curve enforcing and going through the courts like this, even this year or next year already cases that are coming up. So it will be really interesting to see what are the legal precedents or like a Dow and forces is yeahChapter 23 59 sec
subject to the same legal processes that we have todayChapter 24 59 sec
concentrated within the network of token holdersChapter 25 59 sec
through the contact zone between the digital Dow and the physical company, and speaking of agents at what level does the entire membership of the Dow folk, right? Like, are they, are they voting on every decision? Like we want this person as our lawyer, we want this personChapter 26 59 sec
kind of more the key overall big decisions, what the community was able to do. So, I mean, early in the, in the community's formation and in the Dallas formation, there was a governance framework that basically laid out a series of, of, of decisions as to how governance actually functions in the dollChapter 27 59 sec
soft phone for things more than $50,000 requires a token days vote. And this is really important because as you can imagine, early on the organization, it can be super chaotic and really, really unproductive if every single decision that that was making needs to have this sort of laborious community-wide boatChapter 28 59 sec
This is, this is, this is my, my, my biggest, my biggest complaint is I, I cannot pay attention to like streaming walls of text. Yeah. So it's like, how did, how did that emerge? Like, has anybody done a, a doubt, like, just run on like a forum or by email or something?Chapter 29 59 sec
five friends. And that I know like the leading, like art collected, I was like, please, it doubtChapter 30 59 sec
send notifications, similar thingsChapter 31 59 sec
an article about it, jumped into discord, introduced themselves, for example said, yeah, we would love to help on the website. I would love to help on the view flow and then started helping and ultimately through that mechanism. And I think like, People like bubble it up basically, and just started writing an article or doing a low or, but then became more and more integrated parts of most kind of like, like work themselves into itChapter 32 59 sec
expecting anything like re like really good research has joining me into this. Before we even had like $1 funding to give towards researchChapter 33 59 sec
time. And I've been sufficiently frustrated with the way academia currently works and have been actually also thinking about, okay, can there be some kind of mechanism where a community bootstraps itself into existence and funds, scientists and entrepreneurs within its communityChapter 34 59 sec
sort of like, okay, people want to be working with group members. This is like pre doubt. Not even like Vincent saying no token yet, nothing trying to figure out, like, how do you organize this community?Chapter 35 59 sec
that they have value to add to the communityChapter 36 59 sec
unprecedented. I think, for, for a company, especially something that's like bootstrapping from a community, not raising money from didn't raise money from BCS or anything like thatChapter 37 59 sec
So there's not, you know, it's, it's, there's several prongs of the Howey test that are essentially being broken under, you know, whether it's things like making profits from the efforts of others and the fact that no one in the organization is directly profiting from, from sort of commercialization efforts the Dow is doingChapter 38 59 sec
So maybe, maybe to add a couple of points hereChapter 39 59 sec
all the goal here is to fund, to fund research, and really open up that research and then to try and make it accessible for the wealth which could actually mean open sourcing the research or open-sourcing the IP thus killing its commercial valueChapter 40 59 sec
Sort of a very special case in the sense of it's like very IP based there's, there's sort of very much a, like a one-to-one correlation between IP and product and those products can be very lucrative. So, so that's sort of why, you know, the therapeutics as, as an industry work. Do you think that the, the sort of the beat Dow approach could work for research and development outside of the therapeutic world?Chapter 41 59 sec
not that importantChapter 42 59 sec
any sort of field whereChapter 43 59 sec
And then, which I think a lot of dowels are already, already doing. For example, maybe it also has as one point also in addition to like, even like activities, like funding I P directly and kind of like having like a self fulfilling or like also you know, sustainable funding cycle there. We also, for example, had like these efforts that are completely philanthropic, if you like, and just helping to use also our community and to, for example, put together like this donation round on longevity and like exploring kinetic donations, like basically where, like I also like this idea even like before Kind of be the DowChapter 44 59 sec
and, and, and the core focus and activity of funding, IP, because with growth, our community and, and yeah, the whole fieldChapter 45 59 sec
64 million which is we're on 64 million, which is about the lifespan in minutes of the longest lived person, John Como. And that's sort of Beaky right. We can only extend that if someone lives longer than that, but anyone could buy those tokens, right?Chapter 46 59 sec
curious. If I could ask you a question, Ben, on, on your thinking on, on poverty, how do you think, like, something like that fit into your thinking on just like new institutions for funding science, because you also mentioned this, like, it could also be a model of course, like we're potentially exploring it allChapter 47 59 sec
will be able to answer that much better after sort of like going after this. Right. So I think the, so just some of the tricky pieces, I think outside the domain of longevity is like longevity is, is very, you know, exciting to a lot of people with money both in the crypto community and outside of itChapter 48 59 sec
lab develop one therapeutic, which corresponds to one piece of IP, which corresponds to one productChapter 49 59 sec
quick. So I think Dow will be a highly use case specific. It's actually been an interesting site. I've been I've I started writing about thousand mid 2016, 2016Chapter 50 59 sec
you have failed that it actually providing frameworks that really got to mass adoption. And I think w whoever, someone, when, when you start building a down, it's kind of like, when you say, like, I want to build a company and there's many ways to build companiesChapter 51 59 sec
several groups of larger VCs, that thou will be very different from a cultural perspectiveChapter 52 59 sec
think a community like meta down will be very different than let's say a Dow that's focused on rare diseases where you're working with several patient advocacy groups. And it's not like there's a huge general excitement, unfortunately about diseases that are, that only affect small patient populationsChapter 53 59 sec
simply a way to motivate certain outcomes and certain behaviors in real time, sort of building and production, texting and production and academiaChapter 54 59 sec
as a scientist, this is one of the things that, that really, really strongly resonates. It's like move beyond the theoretical and go directly to the apply and start testing things in production, seeing what worksChapter 55 59 sec
scale incentives to a large group of people. Then we went three and crypto. So to me, this is, this is the most, yeah, I think we're done when it comes down to the point of the rights before that ultimately it's about a community, even with sidearm, like there's no token, there's nothingChapter 56 59 sec
together, building on it, being incentivized to build on itChapter 57 59 sec
own, but rather just because tech transfer is largely a failed business modelChapter 58 59 sec
Like the first one does it. And then they've sort of de-risked it for the others. And this is what we see happening with every subsequent one that goes for it. It's easier to have the next conversation. We also learn more about how to work with them, how to structure these deals. I would say the main thing here is that tech transfer is largely not profitableChapter 59 59 sec
because we've been so this is also for example, a core role that we see that we see at molecule. Again, tech transfer can be standardized, like working with tech transfer. It doesn't matter if you are outsourcing in longevity asset orChapter 60 59 sec
standardsChapter 61 59 sec
If the right structures and processes are. And like one out of every 20 is just some person who's like, oh my God, this is so cool. I also love when I play around in defy, I'm also into, it happens rarely, but when, when that happens, you're like, okay, this has got toChapter 62 59 sec
for these IP NFPSChapter 63 59 sec
also like a huge value proposition to the researchers. And speaking of applications is this is a question from on Twitter. All of your proposals seem to have passed with like resounding consensus Not necessarily, not necessarily, no. It's I think there was one or two that would almost almost 50 50, but like really, like I would read on some there's like resounding like almost like a hundred percent voting in favor on two or three, there was like only 60% of voting in favorChapter 64 59 sec
some of them who might've looked and, and help you diligence. Sign up something might be really excited by it and some might vote against it. And I think that's really the thing, because ultimately you can even see in the voting we voted. So you might like seeing the names of the people who voted and you see, okay, this person that is leading the longevity working group voted against itChapter 65 59 sec
we didn't put any crazy thing, like a head transplant research or even the, okay. Maybe that might be exciting for themChapter 66 59 sec
goes up into, to a community vote. Okay. That basically the main experts, like what also taught us at early off, like people are like, we're in this research also investors in the field and present like re deep domain experts who are also of course look at the criteriaChapter 67 59 sec
final debate whether we're doing it or not, but and then I think, what do you also see as there's lots of like, almost like housekeeping proposals but it's important that they're actually put up to all token holders to sign on because finding at the end of the day toggles are really the executive for the organizationChapter 68 59 sec
You launch kind of you launch a product and architecture, and then you refine it as you go along. We've also reduced, for example, that can be cumbersome to constantly have people actually use gasChapter 69 59 sec
higher, let's say that there's more discussion, like a smaller discussion around those proposals. Yeah. In, in theory, just do this with a spreadsheetChapter 70 59 sec
maybe you have to access rights to the Google spreadsheet. And I think that's ultimately where it breaks down. It's like, ultimately, you, you couldn't do it in web two way, like a dollsChapter 71 59 sec
beyond kind of each dowel also have lists of in general, just decentralized science efforts. We're excited by like, from research by also yeah, funded by the Coinbase founder as a, for decentralized publishing, but it hasn't been designed to surprise us what, like Adams is working on and a bunch of different projects that we can, can leave in the show notes for those who want to rabbit hole into the simplest science, because I think it's really interesting new field emergingChapter 72 59 sec
together. The great thing about with three is that it's highly composable and interoperable really in the way of like open API as in a, in, in, in a sense like similar to the open source software is really open and interoperableChapter 73 59 sec
them. And even at a later stage, you could, you could decide to set up a doubt. So some of the founders, for example, that are approaching as a. They're like, oh, I want to start it off because I have this research about itChapter 74 6 sec
course, and longevity from anywhere in the world. Excellent. Well, I really appreciate all of you taking the time, taking more, more than, more than the time. And yeah. Keep up the good work.